Do you feel like this same dynamic extends to women in society more broadly? I’ve been thinking about some conversations I’ve overheard here in Korea, where men describe their ideal type as “someone who eats well” or “someone who eats with gusto,” yet appearance‑wise they still expect a body that requires intense discipline and restriction to achieve. I’m not sure how fair this assessment is, but it seems that equal performance is expected of non‑artists too, especially women.
What I struggle to understand is where this cycle even begins anymore. People don’t seem to want to escape it; instead, they’re both being forced to perform and actively reinforcing the same pressure onto others. I can’t quite wrap my head around that.
I remember seeing a comment on a video where an average, thin man went on a date with a woman who allegedly rejected him for being “fat.” One of the comments said: “It’s only normal, she starves herself to look her best, so it’s fair to ask the same of him.” As someone with a history of eds, I genuinely can’t understand this logic. I can’t comprehend wanting someone else to suffer in the same way, or seeing that suffering as justified or fair.
That’s why it’s so hard for me to understand why people endure this without wanting to free themselves, or why the impulse isn’t to break the cycle rather than perpetuate it. I know the easy answer is “culture,” but at some point, it looks like collective self‑harm.
Thank you so much for such a thoughtful comment and sorry I'm so late to it!
I definitely feel like the general public (women especially) is subjected to those conflicting expectations. Even just by being in an (East? Southeast?) Asian shopping mall you are automatically pulled taut like a puppet towards two different directions that feed you completely different messagings: the patisseries and cosmetics shops/beauty clinics.
I share your frustration and I can imagine it must hit so differently for someone who came out on the other end to see that people are still knee-deep in it. I wrote this whole thing precisely because I'm struck by how entrenched this harmful bind is in the modern consciousness, after so many years!! I wonder what you think about Ariana Grande and the Wicked cast, and the whole debate about whether their largely young, female fanbase is being exposed to their "competitive ED aesthetics"...
On a positive note, I do think that in China people are becoming more aware of the cycle, and there's been talk of boycotting "服美役“, "military duty of being pretty". There's also a better understanding of EDs. Still, there's a long way to go because people still associate skinniness with rewards (dates, relationships, admiration). Hopefully by talking more about it, we're moving closer to ending it...
I have quite a few Chinese classmates, and they do appear more aware and "free" from those pressures, but then again, I am meeting them as people studying abroad, which already imposes some sort of bias.
I really hope we are walking towards progress, but...
It does look like a regression (in the western hemisphere at least). It's hard for me to give definitive opinions when it comes to this subject, because I am always afraid my experience takes away too much of my objectivity. However, it is personally triggering (well, just uncomfortable at this point) when an interview of the Wicked Cast appears in my algorithm (I haven't watched the movie, in large part because of it). There is obviously something to be said about the we shouldn't comment on people's bodies, but ...as I read someone commenting, it gets to a point in which it feels like they might be hiding this argument to not address a serious, large-scale and (although I am sure unintentional on their part) harmful issue.
There's definitely a huge element of competitiveness in EDs, you are striving for perfection, by working non-stop, by success, by eating in the most perfect way (often times orthodexia), and by not eating (which feels like another exercise of perfect discipline). And even if you don't mean it consciously, if those around you are perpetuating this competitive environment, it will be really hard not to fall behind.
(This part is very, very unscientific, but as a Capricorn, like Cynthia, I can tottally see how the "known for discipline, responsibility, and a hardworking nature, ruled... often seen as methodical, practical, and goal-oriented, but can also be perceived as reserved or pessimistic" is on hell of a recipe for being caught up in this).
No I totally feel the same...I saw Wicked 1 and it was just bad as a cinematic product - colour grading, storytelling, everything. I get that we shouldn't comment on other people's bodies, but I feel like an exception must be made when we're witnessing this kind of blatant self-harm? abuse? denial? health deterioration at a scale? because surely we cannot choose to be silent about it... And there's also something sinister about how obesity is constantly mentioned everywhere, getting free passes from the "not commenting on bodies" rhetoric, and skinniness doesn't get the same treatment in media.
Do you feel like this same dynamic extends to women in society more broadly? I’ve been thinking about some conversations I’ve overheard here in Korea, where men describe their ideal type as “someone who eats well” or “someone who eats with gusto,” yet appearance‑wise they still expect a body that requires intense discipline and restriction to achieve. I’m not sure how fair this assessment is, but it seems that equal performance is expected of non‑artists too, especially women.
What I struggle to understand is where this cycle even begins anymore. People don’t seem to want to escape it; instead, they’re both being forced to perform and actively reinforcing the same pressure onto others. I can’t quite wrap my head around that.
I remember seeing a comment on a video where an average, thin man went on a date with a woman who allegedly rejected him for being “fat.” One of the comments said: “It’s only normal, she starves herself to look her best, so it’s fair to ask the same of him.” As someone with a history of eds, I genuinely can’t understand this logic. I can’t comprehend wanting someone else to suffer in the same way, or seeing that suffering as justified or fair.
That’s why it’s so hard for me to understand why people endure this without wanting to free themselves, or why the impulse isn’t to break the cycle rather than perpetuate it. I know the easy answer is “culture,” but at some point, it looks like collective self‑harm.
Thank you so much for such a thoughtful comment and sorry I'm so late to it!
I definitely feel like the general public (women especially) is subjected to those conflicting expectations. Even just by being in an (East? Southeast?) Asian shopping mall you are automatically pulled taut like a puppet towards two different directions that feed you completely different messagings: the patisseries and cosmetics shops/beauty clinics.
I share your frustration and I can imagine it must hit so differently for someone who came out on the other end to see that people are still knee-deep in it. I wrote this whole thing precisely because I'm struck by how entrenched this harmful bind is in the modern consciousness, after so many years!! I wonder what you think about Ariana Grande and the Wicked cast, and the whole debate about whether their largely young, female fanbase is being exposed to their "competitive ED aesthetics"...
On a positive note, I do think that in China people are becoming more aware of the cycle, and there's been talk of boycotting "服美役“, "military duty of being pretty". There's also a better understanding of EDs. Still, there's a long way to go because people still associate skinniness with rewards (dates, relationships, admiration). Hopefully by talking more about it, we're moving closer to ending it...
Thank you for replying!
I have quite a few Chinese classmates, and they do appear more aware and "free" from those pressures, but then again, I am meeting them as people studying abroad, which already imposes some sort of bias.
I really hope we are walking towards progress, but...
It does look like a regression (in the western hemisphere at least). It's hard for me to give definitive opinions when it comes to this subject, because I am always afraid my experience takes away too much of my objectivity. However, it is personally triggering (well, just uncomfortable at this point) when an interview of the Wicked Cast appears in my algorithm (I haven't watched the movie, in large part because of it). There is obviously something to be said about the we shouldn't comment on people's bodies, but ...as I read someone commenting, it gets to a point in which it feels like they might be hiding this argument to not address a serious, large-scale and (although I am sure unintentional on their part) harmful issue.
There's definitely a huge element of competitiveness in EDs, you are striving for perfection, by working non-stop, by success, by eating in the most perfect way (often times orthodexia), and by not eating (which feels like another exercise of perfect discipline). And even if you don't mean it consciously, if those around you are perpetuating this competitive environment, it will be really hard not to fall behind.
(This part is very, very unscientific, but as a Capricorn, like Cynthia, I can tottally see how the "known for discipline, responsibility, and a hardworking nature, ruled... often seen as methodical, practical, and goal-oriented, but can also be perceived as reserved or pessimistic" is on hell of a recipe for being caught up in this).
No I totally feel the same...I saw Wicked 1 and it was just bad as a cinematic product - colour grading, storytelling, everything. I get that we shouldn't comment on other people's bodies, but I feel like an exception must be made when we're witnessing this kind of blatant self-harm? abuse? denial? health deterioration at a scale? because surely we cannot choose to be silent about it... And there's also something sinister about how obesity is constantly mentioned everywhere, getting free passes from the "not commenting on bodies" rhetoric, and skinniness doesn't get the same treatment in media.